This Ray hate will not stand! (TBH it's not Ray hate, I still love him, there is no one like him. I'm still a Peater, just a heretical Peater. "DO YOU KNOW THE TRUE RAY PEAT?")
Yeah, keto messed up my whole family. Especially me, since I am skinny by nature and I was just doing it in solidarity with my curvy wife and (then) obese son. I lost muscle (which I do not have to spare) and I think we might have lost brain power too.
My son did later lose the weight—150 lbs, and now looks just like me—and he did it purely with calories in/calories out. He just started eating 1,000 a day or less and the weight poured off of him.
What's more, his metabolism appeared to reset. He now seems to have the metabolism of a skinny person.
So many factors and they all seem to be ways you can f*ck yourself up LOL. The final criterion has to just be "what works"! And no one can figure that out except YOU. Mostly it's this a priori prescriptionism that I am trying to excise from my own thinking.
Like the a priori prescriptionism of someone I know who keeps her obese daughter, “At your weight, you NEED to eat at least 1700 calories per day.” Like #@$& she does! She’s 300 pounds!
What I got my my brief foray into bioenergetic coaching is that sometimes, CICO is the only way to get the weight off. But then there are people who end up on a chronic yo-yo. So... IDK. Good luck is pretty much all I can say to people. Oh and seed oils are toxic sludge.
Yeah, Judy is finally coming around on seed oils. She is naturally skeptical, so when I say that canola is “surplus tank lubricant,” her personality says to be skeptical. But she is finally getting there.
As far as CICO, I know it seems like it should slow metabolisms (evolutionarily, that would make sense, I guess). But it sure didn’t in my son!
I occasionally followed your Peatery posts on twitter, and at times wanted to say something like what you have written here: that this all seemed too complicated and an unhealthy (psychic) relationship to have with food. Why not just eat a good variety of real foods, including some meat, follow the fasts of the Church, but seek salvation in Christ.
On the other hand, I'm also 20 pounds overweight. So let's see if, during the apostle's fast, I can do something about that.
I don't think you did keto right. Also Keto is get shredded, get abs, fix your metabolism. Reintroduce carbs moderately after attaining you're goals. It's not go back to being a shit bag and just eat pie and candy as much as you want without regard for what it does to your body.
There's no point in cult thinking. But there is a point is using these things as tool and then navigating properly. Keto is much healthier than shit carbs and not being conscious of your diet.
With respect, you have no idea how I did keto or how I left keto. Keto is not "get shredded" etc.; keto is "maintain dietary ketosis by restricting carbohydrate." In addition to that, I had a highly disciplined and progressive resistance training program. I was in fact incidentally "shredded" at the end of it, but was prediabetic, with testostetone half what it was when I started, and as I think I said in the piece, both free T and T3 out-of-range low. The half-educated partisans of keto (is this you, perhaps?) don't know that these are all common sequelae of prolonged (multi-year) dietary ketosis (yes, including prediabetes). This is, among other reasons, why Paul Saladino (and many others) are now consuming copious carbohydrate, including simple carbs from fruit and honey.
When I left keto, I did it moderately by attempting a "targeted ketogenic" approach with boluses of carbohydrate bracketing intense lifting sessions. That was inadequate to normalize carbohydrate metabolism after the violence I did to it with so many years of dietary ketosis. When I reintroduced more or less ad libitum carbohydrate a la Peat, it was quite structured; this may be hard for a young mind like yours to comprehend, but I have been attentive to diet and health for 40+ years, which is why, at almost 60, I look like a 40 year old. (And by that I mean a 40 year old from normal times, not today when everyone is basically a fat sack.) So no, I did not eat "shit carbs" (though I am not sure you grasp exactly what "shit carbs" are, and probably include e.g. all simple carbs under that rubric).
To your point of "there is no point in cult thinking," thank you for summarizing my little article. However, keto is also cult thinking. Dietary ketosis is, BTW, the antithesis of moderation.
Like I said. Keto is a tool. Used in phases. It doesn't make it all bad or that people shouldn't do it. I think it's very important to learn about nutrition and keto is one of those things that does that. It teach discipline and corrects alot of health issues. But running it for many years I can definitely see it being a problem. I use it in cycles and find it works really well.
I’d say do get bloodwork and keep an eye on hormones — but if you’re cycling that’s probably not likely to be a problem.
Sorry for being irritated. Yes, it’s a good tool, and a lot of tools that have downsides when we use them too much are basically very useful in teaching discipline. If I hadn’t become Orthodox when I was 20, and learned a strict fasting discipline early, I’d have no foundation for health and diet discipline overall. I overdid fasting in the early days, but I am really grateful for the discipline it taught me.
No worries. I 100% agree with getting the bloods too. And I'm not even against carbs. Just the modern diet I think has an obscene amount of carbs in it. And the benefits of keto are actually substantial. Even just in the form of just having more focus and mental clarity.
This is completely outside my usual approach, but given what I've learned (and experienced) about long-term keto, I'm test driving some exogenous ketones. First results are good.
FWIW, my recent cut was at ~50% carbs and very effective at fat loss and lean mass gains. Peat is worth reading; it's just implementation where he is problematic. Four months of ~10/15% caloric deficit, 50% of calories from carbs, including plenty of simple carbs as well as starches, moderate to high protein; lost 30 lb of fat, gained 9 lb of lean mass. Got me back to my old baseline, but now consuming carbohydrate again. Feels like a W. Bloodwork still to come -- so I'll see if the program was good for hormones.
Interesting. I'll look into it. First I'm hearing of it. I just use keto to get abs. Stick that for a bit. Then come back to carbs and gain size. It's a very good like baseline reset I find.
"this N=1gga"
Well done. 😄
I will not stand for this Ray Peat hate!
This Ray hate will not stand! (TBH it's not Ray hate, I still love him, there is no one like him. I'm still a Peater, just a heretical Peater. "DO YOU KNOW THE TRUE RAY PEAT?")
Yeah, keto messed up my whole family. Especially me, since I am skinny by nature and I was just doing it in solidarity with my curvy wife and (then) obese son. I lost muscle (which I do not have to spare) and I think we might have lost brain power too.
My son did later lose the weight—150 lbs, and now looks just like me—and he did it purely with calories in/calories out. He just started eating 1,000 a day or less and the weight poured off of him.
What's more, his metabolism appeared to reset. He now seems to have the metabolism of a skinny person.
So many factors and they all seem to be ways you can f*ck yourself up LOL. The final criterion has to just be "what works"! And no one can figure that out except YOU. Mostly it's this a priori prescriptionism that I am trying to excise from my own thinking.
Like the a priori prescriptionism of someone I know who keeps her obese daughter, “At your weight, you NEED to eat at least 1700 calories per day.” Like #@$& she does! She’s 300 pounds!
What I got my my brief foray into bioenergetic coaching is that sometimes, CICO is the only way to get the weight off. But then there are people who end up on a chronic yo-yo. So... IDK. Good luck is pretty much all I can say to people. Oh and seed oils are toxic sludge.
Yeah, Judy is finally coming around on seed oils. She is naturally skeptical, so when I say that canola is “surplus tank lubricant,” her personality says to be skeptical. But she is finally getting there.
As far as CICO, I know it seems like it should slow metabolisms (evolutionarily, that would make sense, I guess). But it sure didn’t in my son!
What works, works! There's no arguing with it. Good on him.
I suggest taking up pipe smoking. It lowers stress and induces contemplation.
This is sage advice.
I occasionally followed your Peatery posts on twitter, and at times wanted to say something like what you have written here: that this all seemed too complicated and an unhealthy (psychic) relationship to have with food. Why not just eat a good variety of real foods, including some meat, follow the fasts of the Church, but seek salvation in Christ.
On the other hand, I'm also 20 pounds overweight. So let's see if, during the apostle's fast, I can do something about that.
I don't think you did keto right. Also Keto is get shredded, get abs, fix your metabolism. Reintroduce carbs moderately after attaining you're goals. It's not go back to being a shit bag and just eat pie and candy as much as you want without regard for what it does to your body.
There's no point in cult thinking. But there is a point is using these things as tool and then navigating properly. Keto is much healthier than shit carbs and not being conscious of your diet.
With respect, you have no idea how I did keto or how I left keto. Keto is not "get shredded" etc.; keto is "maintain dietary ketosis by restricting carbohydrate." In addition to that, I had a highly disciplined and progressive resistance training program. I was in fact incidentally "shredded" at the end of it, but was prediabetic, with testostetone half what it was when I started, and as I think I said in the piece, both free T and T3 out-of-range low. The half-educated partisans of keto (is this you, perhaps?) don't know that these are all common sequelae of prolonged (multi-year) dietary ketosis (yes, including prediabetes). This is, among other reasons, why Paul Saladino (and many others) are now consuming copious carbohydrate, including simple carbs from fruit and honey.
When I left keto, I did it moderately by attempting a "targeted ketogenic" approach with boluses of carbohydrate bracketing intense lifting sessions. That was inadequate to normalize carbohydrate metabolism after the violence I did to it with so many years of dietary ketosis. When I reintroduced more or less ad libitum carbohydrate a la Peat, it was quite structured; this may be hard for a young mind like yours to comprehend, but I have been attentive to diet and health for 40+ years, which is why, at almost 60, I look like a 40 year old. (And by that I mean a 40 year old from normal times, not today when everyone is basically a fat sack.) So no, I did not eat "shit carbs" (though I am not sure you grasp exactly what "shit carbs" are, and probably include e.g. all simple carbs under that rubric).
To your point of "there is no point in cult thinking," thank you for summarizing my little article. However, keto is also cult thinking. Dietary ketosis is, BTW, the antithesis of moderation.
Like I said. Keto is a tool. Used in phases. It doesn't make it all bad or that people shouldn't do it. I think it's very important to learn about nutrition and keto is one of those things that does that. It teach discipline and corrects alot of health issues. But running it for many years I can definitely see it being a problem. I use it in cycles and find it works really well.
I’d say do get bloodwork and keep an eye on hormones — but if you’re cycling that’s probably not likely to be a problem.
Sorry for being irritated. Yes, it’s a good tool, and a lot of tools that have downsides when we use them too much are basically very useful in teaching discipline. If I hadn’t become Orthodox when I was 20, and learned a strict fasting discipline early, I’d have no foundation for health and diet discipline overall. I overdid fasting in the early days, but I am really grateful for the discipline it taught me.
No worries. I 100% agree with getting the bloods too. And I'm not even against carbs. Just the modern diet I think has an obscene amount of carbs in it. And the benefits of keto are actually substantial. Even just in the form of just having more focus and mental clarity.
This is completely outside my usual approach, but given what I've learned (and experienced) about long-term keto, I'm test driving some exogenous ketones. First results are good.
FWIW, my recent cut was at ~50% carbs and very effective at fat loss and lean mass gains. Peat is worth reading; it's just implementation where he is problematic. Four months of ~10/15% caloric deficit, 50% of calories from carbs, including plenty of simple carbs as well as starches, moderate to high protein; lost 30 lb of fat, gained 9 lb of lean mass. Got me back to my old baseline, but now consuming carbohydrate again. Feels like a W. Bloodwork still to come -- so I'll see if the program was good for hormones.
Interesting. I'll look into it. First I'm hearing of it. I just use keto to get abs. Stick that for a bit. Then come back to carbs and gain size. It's a very good like baseline reset I find.
Amen, sister! So glad to hear it. This is the way.