Wow, you are certainly listening to the tune that is asking to be sung right now. Since reading all of the Christian Hermeticism debates recently, the Substack algorithm has been suggesting your name and I'm so glad it has.
"What hath Avalon to do with Jerusalem" is the question of our times. All of the conversations I have with people steeped in these waters agree that this is where the work to be done is. The European pagan, the hermetic, the enchanted, must be homed in Christianity. And the ways of sorting these things out that have been passed down to us are inadequate to the situation. It's not through systematics or polemics but through lived, human relationship. It is only relationships that can hold the subtlety and complexity of what's being asked of us.
A lot of my work has been on, what I've been calling, the Relational Frontier. This exploration of how we can relate with each other in a way that is beyond debate, beyond projection and assumption, but nonetheless gets us more deeply in touch with reality. And it's in the embodied, the felt and experienced, and in the aporetic.
So excited to keep following your work and your journey, I'm expecting a lot of insight on my end to come of it!!
Thanks so much for your comment! Just amazing browsing your stack and your notes to see the points of convergence. You've gone much deeper into Tomberg than I have, and you make me want to pick up Meditations again. The whole path you've followed resonates so much for me. Lovely to meet you here.
You touch on so many of my own concerns. Thank you for sharing what must be quite personal and hidden thoughts here.
It is said that metaphysicians are inveterate mountain climbers. They love to stand at the highest peaks (perhaps with Lucifer beside them) seeing the world from a 'God's-eye view.' But what they sometimes forget is that God has no point of view.
I love the peaks, but the valleys and hollows also call me, where the ferns and balsams grow, and life-giving streams run along beside mossy tree roots and translucent quartz.
Love this a lot and I agree that no explanatory schema has the power to actively heal the world. However, as an inveterate who is metaphysically inclined, I do think the desire for creation, including the body, affections, and imagination—and yes even hypostatic animism—has its most comfortable home in Sophiology (including its eccentric orbiter Berdyaev) and Kabbalah. On the historical side, I think the Christian animism is already there and we just need to do the careful work of uncovering it—late antique Christian Egypt, Celtic Christianity, Slavic Christianity, basically anywhere the “romanitas” of Christian empire reached the fringes of something less metaphysically clean, you find more interesting varieties of Christian practice. But also of course, right in the heart of the Roman liturgy (creature of water, mother bee) and in how our greatest saints (Francis, Seraphim of Sarov) relate to animals. You might find this book interesting!
I'm reminded of the Norwegian Mystic, Are Thoresen. When I saw him speak, he talked about bringing Christ to the Elementals. It honestly transformed the way I approach my whole work, which is preparing food for children. What happens if the elemental beings in the food are imbued with Christ forces? Suddenly, my mundane job as a cook started to become my life's work.
Beautifully written dear brother. As a deeply feeling animist & animystic, I really appreciate the level of devotion contained in this perceptive lens.
I’d be interested to hear of the irrefutable darknesses you encountered in the pagan world.
& perhaps how one discerns between those created living spirits of the earth & sky which are beneficent, & those that are malefic.
> Is our troublesome and painful presence in the world now a fruit above all of the fact that we have failed in this fundamental vocation?
If by troublesome and painful, you are referring to our limitations and the fact that we suffer, I'd answer: No.
We are meant to have limits. Even Jesus has limits in Hos human nature; it's how He truly suffers and truly dies. Is His suffering in His human nature -- troublesome and painful -- an indication that He failed in his vocation? If not, then why burden the rest of us humans with such a standard?
No, I wholly accept those limitations! By "troublesome and painful," I meant in essence our degeneracy, our peculiar modern forms of cultural, moral, and environmental destruction.
I too find a lot of value in this way of experiencing the world.
The other famous answer to the question of creation, of course, is Manichaeism, which likewise acknowledges a universe of beings, a world filled with spirits; sparks of divine light fractured, scattered and trapped in the gross matter of a lower creation. This answer has its own bittersweet beauty.
Frankly, I've yet to be convinced that how one perceives matter in & of itself – whether one conceives of it as good or bad – actually makes any difference in how one treats it; what does make a difference is whether or not one acknowledges the existence of the spiritual beings who dwell within it.
This resonates a lot with me. I don't know about hermeticism, but we need some instance of Christianity that pays attention to Creation. I became Orthodox a year ago, only after seeing Shaw and Kingsnorth convert, and reading some of the "Cosmic" Christianity discussed by John Chryssavgis (as in Creation as Sacrament). I avoided Christianity for the longest time because everyone basically seemed to be a gnostic: "If only we could escape this world/body!"
I like focusing distinction between worshipping beings and just knowing they're there. With all this arguing about hermeticism, re-enchantment and magic, what are the other cleavage lines that can separate out "old and bad" from "timeless and good"? (Obviously, haters gonna hate, so there's no pleasing them, but can we get to "lots of people might think this is okay"?)
Or what is there to DO with this approach? Daily practices? A new liturgy that elaborates on Chryssostom's?
Wow, you are certainly listening to the tune that is asking to be sung right now. Since reading all of the Christian Hermeticism debates recently, the Substack algorithm has been suggesting your name and I'm so glad it has.
"What hath Avalon to do with Jerusalem" is the question of our times. All of the conversations I have with people steeped in these waters agree that this is where the work to be done is. The European pagan, the hermetic, the enchanted, must be homed in Christianity. And the ways of sorting these things out that have been passed down to us are inadequate to the situation. It's not through systematics or polemics but through lived, human relationship. It is only relationships that can hold the subtlety and complexity of what's being asked of us.
A lot of my work has been on, what I've been calling, the Relational Frontier. This exploration of how we can relate with each other in a way that is beyond debate, beyond projection and assumption, but nonetheless gets us more deeply in touch with reality. And it's in the embodied, the felt and experienced, and in the aporetic.
So excited to keep following your work and your journey, I'm expecting a lot of insight on my end to come of it!!
Yes, yes, yes! This strikes a deep chord with me. (I’m actually a member of an American Druid order am working to integrate the two paths.)
Thanks so much for your comment! Just amazing browsing your stack and your notes to see the points of convergence. You've gone much deeper into Tomberg than I have, and you make me want to pick up Meditations again. The whole path you've followed resonates so much for me. Lovely to meet you here.
You touch on so many of my own concerns. Thank you for sharing what must be quite personal and hidden thoughts here.
It is said that metaphysicians are inveterate mountain climbers. They love to stand at the highest peaks (perhaps with Lucifer beside them) seeing the world from a 'God's-eye view.' But what they sometimes forget is that God has no point of view.
I love the peaks, but the valleys and hollows also call me, where the ferns and balsams grow, and life-giving streams run along beside mossy tree roots and translucent quartz.
Love this a lot and I agree that no explanatory schema has the power to actively heal the world. However, as an inveterate who is metaphysically inclined, I do think the desire for creation, including the body, affections, and imagination—and yes even hypostatic animism—has its most comfortable home in Sophiology (including its eccentric orbiter Berdyaev) and Kabbalah. On the historical side, I think the Christian animism is already there and we just need to do the careful work of uncovering it—late antique Christian Egypt, Celtic Christianity, Slavic Christianity, basically anywhere the “romanitas” of Christian empire reached the fringes of something less metaphysically clean, you find more interesting varieties of Christian practice. But also of course, right in the heart of the Roman liturgy (creature of water, mother bee) and in how our greatest saints (Francis, Seraphim of Sarov) relate to animals. You might find this book interesting!
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176970/christianizing-egypt?srsltid=AfmBOopVTFDOMgU_mXKdskW-AmPP41YBXf3_1AVu3caQlakLNDgNxpjQ
I'm reminded of the Norwegian Mystic, Are Thoresen. When I saw him speak, he talked about bringing Christ to the Elementals. It honestly transformed the way I approach my whole work, which is preparing food for children. What happens if the elemental beings in the food are imbued with Christ forces? Suddenly, my mundane job as a cook started to become my life's work.
Excellent read bud, thank you
Beautifully written dear brother. As a deeply feeling animist & animystic, I really appreciate the level of devotion contained in this perceptive lens.
I’d be interested to hear of the irrefutable darknesses you encountered in the pagan world.
& perhaps how one discerns between those created living spirits of the earth & sky which are beneficent, & those that are malefic.
Hey, I was supposed to write this! Lol. Thanks for doing the work for me.
> Is our troublesome and painful presence in the world now a fruit above all of the fact that we have failed in this fundamental vocation?
If by troublesome and painful, you are referring to our limitations and the fact that we suffer, I'd answer: No.
We are meant to have limits. Even Jesus has limits in Hos human nature; it's how He truly suffers and truly dies. Is His suffering in His human nature -- troublesome and painful -- an indication that He failed in his vocation? If not, then why burden the rest of us humans with such a standard?
Fascinating reflection overall.
No, I wholly accept those limitations! By "troublesome and painful," I meant in essence our degeneracy, our peculiar modern forms of cultural, moral, and environmental destruction.
I too find a lot of value in this way of experiencing the world.
The other famous answer to the question of creation, of course, is Manichaeism, which likewise acknowledges a universe of beings, a world filled with spirits; sparks of divine light fractured, scattered and trapped in the gross matter of a lower creation. This answer has its own bittersweet beauty.
Frankly, I've yet to be convinced that how one perceives matter in & of itself – whether one conceives of it as good or bad – actually makes any difference in how one treats it; what does make a difference is whether or not one acknowledges the existence of the spiritual beings who dwell within it.
This resonates a lot with me. I don't know about hermeticism, but we need some instance of Christianity that pays attention to Creation. I became Orthodox a year ago, only after seeing Shaw and Kingsnorth convert, and reading some of the "Cosmic" Christianity discussed by John Chryssavgis (as in Creation as Sacrament). I avoided Christianity for the longest time because everyone basically seemed to be a gnostic: "If only we could escape this world/body!"
I like focusing distinction between worshipping beings and just knowing they're there. With all this arguing about hermeticism, re-enchantment and magic, what are the other cleavage lines that can separate out "old and bad" from "timeless and good"? (Obviously, haters gonna hate, so there's no pleasing them, but can we get to "lots of people might think this is okay"?)
Or what is there to DO with this approach? Daily practices? A new liturgy that elaborates on Chryssostom's?