"tarred and feathered not just by the Orthobros but perhaps by almost everyone"
Not by me—I'm on the same page. The way I put it is that the Logos who is Jesus speaks via His holy Sophia across all places and cultures and traditions and times. It also follows that it is entirely possible for some people from non-Christian traditions to be more in harmony with the Logos than some Christian believers. After all, Jesus warned that not all who merely say His name would be saved, and I think it works the other way around as well.
But finally, I do think that all Wisdom converges on Christ, and that it would be better for people to pursue that convergence in the light of full consciousness, even as it isn't strictly necessary for them to do so. I don't care whether anyone "converts to Christianity," but it seems meaningful for them to know the Person, and to integrate the Gospel into their own existing traditions and understandings as they will.
(This type of approach was magnificently successful when the Orthodox missionaries went to the Inuits in Alaska: https://sacredalaskafilm.com)
Yes, 100%. I agree... It leads me to think more about sharing the lives of the saints, those "other Christs," than about dogmatic disputation! Have not seen that film, will watch!
“This is what I mean by “ecumenism” and this is why I am an “ecumenist.” And it includes not merely sharing “my” riches with others, but receiving others’ riches when they share them with me.”
Beautiful work, brother. This reflects the best of our conversations over the years. Your comparison to marriage is perfect. That is exactly how it sounds when someone tries to convert us, or when we do the same.
If we don’t begin and end with love and genuine interest in the person than we’ve already lost.
See Diego Duran and the Dominicans who helped all of us in Mexico, along with our blessed mother, our Lady of Guadalupe find Christ an ocean away from the Holy Land. God had already been speaking to Nezahualcoyotl to end human sacrifice for one had already come and his sacrifice was sufficient for all time.
This was amazing and really encapsulates how I feel about this whole matter. As a "prostestant" Christian I do believe that there is a fullness of faith found in Eastern Orthodoxy that isn't found in other streams of Christianity. That said it doesn't mean I'm now gonna convert to EO. I live in Jamaica where eastern orthodox presence is almost non-existent. What is present though, is protestantism (and to a lesser extent RC) and the culture that has developed in Jamaica coming out of that. I feel I'm called to engage with that and do my best to embody Christ as best as I possibly can. To let "Truth have me" and allow God to show forth His Glory... however that is to look in the weeks, months and years to come. Have a good day!! 🙏
I can never do feelings and intuitions justice with words, no matter how hard I try. As such anything that I attempt to convey to you will surely miss the mark. But know that I am grateful for your writings. I see something "true " in them that vivifies my faith. There is something here that knocks the dust out if my eyes and makes things seem holy. Are you familiar with John Moriarty? I think you might like him.
I know of him but have not read him, and you are another voice in his favor! I believe is is a favorite of @hermeticat. And thank you for your kind words!
I don’t know how I can make this clear, so forgive me if I say something abrasive.
I had a home. I had a community of friends in a evangelical church. Realistically, it was the first time I ever felt at home.
I ended up leaving and losing most of my friends because of it, because I realized what I taught is false.
Your comparison to a marriage is apt: it was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I had to give up my “wife” (church community) and worse, my relationship with God.
I think it sounds very appealing to act like one can know Christ without having the right dogma or being orthodox and not emphasize the truth… up until you yourself are burned by heresy and witness the destruction it can cause in one’s life.
So no… while I don’t think it is my place to force anyone to convert and instead I hope in God’s mercy, I DO hope that everyone converts because we know where the ark of salvation is… I don’t want them to merely adopt Christian dogma but join themselves to the body of Christ.
The ecumenist position requires ignoring the swath of anctedotes on the harm caused by heresy. One of primary purposes of the church itself is to protect her members from false doctrine.. the idea that right belief is not necessary to know Christ contradicts this purpose.
Orthodoxy is the truth and it does matter that it’s the truth.
"tarred and feathered not just by the Orthobros but perhaps by almost everyone"
Not by me—I'm on the same page. The way I put it is that the Logos who is Jesus speaks via His holy Sophia across all places and cultures and traditions and times. It also follows that it is entirely possible for some people from non-Christian traditions to be more in harmony with the Logos than some Christian believers. After all, Jesus warned that not all who merely say His name would be saved, and I think it works the other way around as well.
But finally, I do think that all Wisdom converges on Christ, and that it would be better for people to pursue that convergence in the light of full consciousness, even as it isn't strictly necessary for them to do so. I don't care whether anyone "converts to Christianity," but it seems meaningful for them to know the Person, and to integrate the Gospel into their own existing traditions and understandings as they will.
(This type of approach was magnificently successful when the Orthodox missionaries went to the Inuits in Alaska: https://sacredalaskafilm.com)
Off to order your book, BTW!
Thank you! I hope you enjoy it. And I've been brainstorming ideas to start posting on my Substack blog here, so you may see something soon.
Yes, 100%. I agree... It leads me to think more about sharing the lives of the saints, those "other Christs," than about dogmatic disputation! Have not seen that film, will watch!
“This is what I mean by “ecumenism” and this is why I am an “ecumenist.” And it includes not merely sharing “my” riches with others, but receiving others’ riches when they share them with me.”
Beautiful work, brother. This reflects the best of our conversations over the years. Your comparison to marriage is perfect. That is exactly how it sounds when someone tries to convert us, or when we do the same.
If we don’t begin and end with love and genuine interest in the person than we’ve already lost.
100% and you really helped solidify this understanding for me. Much love to you and the fam.
Likewise, and much love to you and yours as well.
See Diego Duran and the Dominicans who helped all of us in Mexico, along with our blessed mother, our Lady of Guadalupe find Christ an ocean away from the Holy Land. God had already been speaking to Nezahualcoyotl to end human sacrifice for one had already come and his sacrifice was sufficient for all time.
Well done.
"You wouldn't be searching for Jesus if you hadn't already found Him." -- Pascal, exquisitely expressing the paradox.
I’m so glad this curious unorthodox Orthodox corner of the internet exists. Y’all are my people. 💜☦️💜
There are dozens of us — dozens, I say!
This was amazing and really encapsulates how I feel about this whole matter. As a "prostestant" Christian I do believe that there is a fullness of faith found in Eastern Orthodoxy that isn't found in other streams of Christianity. That said it doesn't mean I'm now gonna convert to EO. I live in Jamaica where eastern orthodox presence is almost non-existent. What is present though, is protestantism (and to a lesser extent RC) and the culture that has developed in Jamaica coming out of that. I feel I'm called to engage with that and do my best to embody Christ as best as I possibly can. To let "Truth have me" and allow God to show forth His Glory... however that is to look in the weeks, months and years to come. Have a good day!! 🙏
Well said brother and thank you for your well wishes! Prayers to you for your joy in the Lord!
I can never do feelings and intuitions justice with words, no matter how hard I try. As such anything that I attempt to convey to you will surely miss the mark. But know that I am grateful for your writings. I see something "true " in them that vivifies my faith. There is something here that knocks the dust out if my eyes and makes things seem holy. Are you familiar with John Moriarty? I think you might like him.
I know of him but have not read him, and you are another voice in his favor! I believe is is a favorite of @hermeticat. And thank you for your kind words!
I think, perhaps you might find a kindred spirit in John. His writing is a little dense. There are some wonderful videos of him speaking on YouTube.
I don’t know how I can make this clear, so forgive me if I say something abrasive.
I had a home. I had a community of friends in a evangelical church. Realistically, it was the first time I ever felt at home.
I ended up leaving and losing most of my friends because of it, because I realized what I taught is false.
Your comparison to a marriage is apt: it was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I had to give up my “wife” (church community) and worse, my relationship with God.
I think it sounds very appealing to act like one can know Christ without having the right dogma or being orthodox and not emphasize the truth… up until you yourself are burned by heresy and witness the destruction it can cause in one’s life.
So no… while I don’t think it is my place to force anyone to convert and instead I hope in God’s mercy, I DO hope that everyone converts because we know where the ark of salvation is… I don’t want them to merely adopt Christian dogma but join themselves to the body of Christ.
The ecumenist position requires ignoring the swath of anctedotes on the harm caused by heresy. One of primary purposes of the church itself is to protect her members from false doctrine.. the idea that right belief is not necessary to know Christ contradicts this purpose.
Orthodoxy is the truth and it does matter that it’s the truth.